Let’s move to the Land!

[Kev]

Hey y’all!.. I was gonna create a new group dedicated specifically to all things related to aspiring homesteaders getting together, pooling our resources, and acquiring land in co-ownership.. Then I realized that starting a Discussion thread in this existing group is a great place to start, especially as I see some folks here mentioning it..

I come at the necessity of this approach through my own story.. I knew I wanted a homestead life as far back as the mid-90s, when I was in my 20’s.. That hasn’t always been an active goal or something consciously in my mind, by any stretch, but the past few years have put it into sharp focus.. Many of us understand this and have experienced the same awakenings and realizations.. That’s obvious.. Yet, I’ve never had the means to purchase land on my own, and what I see these days is that the majority of aspiring homesteaders seem to be in that same boat.. So potentially, or obviously, the pooling of resources is what many of us will need to do..

On another personal note, I came to envision what my ideal group homestead would look like – which would be an individual piece of land that’s divvied up amongst the residents, all of whom are independent in their own right within their own domain, yet the homestead orbits around collaboration and central projects and collective efforts, whatever they may be, to whatever degree.. And I thought – no one’s gonna understand that, or go for that, assuming that what other folks are generally looking for is the old model of “intentional community”.. Then I discovered Kin’s domains and Kin’s domain settlements, which are built on this organizing principle of independent and sovereign homesteads grouped together, and was surprised to see that folks are actually doing it this way.. (Thanks to AlfaVedic podcast for interviewing Gabriel Miguel).. And now I see that more and more folks are embracing this organizing principle as a way to get together and collaborate and support each other.. (But by no means am I pushing an agenda or one specific way of approaching it.. Everyone has what works for them)..

And it could also be the case that there are existing landowners or farmers who may want to bring in extra folks to build out a community-group homestead.. That’s always possible..

So much to be discussed regarding a group of folks getting together, who have common purpose and vision.. Some areas of discussion could be:

– common vision and purpose (what are yours?)

– the organizing principles of the homestead

– voluntary agreements or a list of rules?

– weekly meetings or hell no?

– is someone with meager resources a viable community member?

– actual land ownership and the legal side of it

– how do folks geographically separated from each other look for land together?

I’ll leave it at that for now.. And.. discuss… ?

Discussion

[Michael]

Yes, seems this is where a lot of like-minded people are pivoting towards, I have some land/houses 12 hours from where I live in Florida that I am pontificating on a concept (friend den) similar to kin domains with a CoOp feel. I am hoping to learn more about land patents soon.

[Kev]

Ah, yes, land patents.. I want to learn the in’s & out’s of that too.. I’ve heard a few people talk about them, but I’m not certain I entirely know what they are.. From what I gather, it’s a legal process for extricating your land from “the system” so you’re completely free and no one has say in what you can and can’t do (no jurisdiction), which may include the elimination of property taxes.. Not sure if I’m in the ballpark, but I definitely want to learn..

Would be curious where your other land is, generally speaking.. Personal question there, so no answer needed if you don’t want to.. I just ask because I lived in southern Alabama as a lad, so could be in the general region..

[Michael]

It is about 30 acres not far from the Elvis superhighway in North Mississippi between Tupelo, MS and Memphis, TN. I currently live fairly close to Galts Landing and really love this area too.

[Kev]

Oh nice.. I had to look up that area of northern Mississippi, and it looks relatively sparsely-populated and forested.. I’m guessing a lot of native pine trees in that region..

My best friend also lives in Orlando and has become an avid gardener, lovin’ her banana trees, and she’s sending me some Bidens alba wildflower seeds.. I’m about to turn her onto Galt’s Landing.. ?

[Hulda]

Kev, one thing I know about land patents is that patetened land cannot be put into a trust, as land patents are for the wo/man. Only the equitable interest (i.e. excluding what may be owed on a mort-gage) of a real property can be put into a trust.

[Michael]

Yes there is sufficient pine around, the place is 30 miles north of Ole Miss so not too populated. Terrain is similar to south Alabama, I have a few red clay rolling hills on the site, thinkjng of doing some airCrete domes.

[Kev]

I just learned of aircrete earlier this year — cement mixed with a foamed surfactant/soap, if I’m not mistaken.. Makes very lightweight material, or bricks, from what I saw.. And I know cement can be made from a few different things, so would you use the red clay and sand (and possibly limestone) on the property for the cement component?..

[Mike]

Great post! This is one of the main goals of this community…to help folks come together IRL and make the moves necessary to better their lives and those around them. This is a great model to follow and I know my partners from Music & Sky are looking to do this as well. We want to find some land to do the event at while also developing it in a way like AV gardens works… as a permaculture-minded business and living system.

[Kev]

Absolutely Mike!.. I’ve had so many business ideas in the past couple years – from the obvious selling at farmer’s markets, producing kraut & kimchi, medicinal herbs & tinctures, plant propagation, raw ice cream made with our own raw honey, etc.. So many things to imagine, like learning to build with cob and then offering a home-building service in the local area..

Also had the idea of making the homestead an educational opportunity (as opposed to closing ourselves off and retreating into the woods), with gatherings of various sorts for various reasons (especially permaculture, medicine & healing & the woo stuff).. And Food Forest Abundance created their Freedom Farm Academy program in order to turn homesteads into demonstration sites, so that strikes me as an established framework to plug into.. But I love that the AV farm does this independently already.. It’s like this is all a whole new world of ideas.. But also, what can’t we achieve when we work in collaboration??..

[Michael]

I would love to model after AV, if any members are ever in that area, there is a free place to land and lay their head at night if need be. The local populace there is not quite awakened yet but the momentum is building.

[Kev]

I especially like how AV grows a medicinal herbal garden and produces products for sale.. I’ve had that idea bumpin’ around in my head for years.. Could go conventional with it (the really common herbs), or could go somewhat unconventional (such as Chinese medicinal plants that are not easy to find, that sort of idea).. But also, I think with herbal medicine, you need to stick with what you know, and keep it simple, try not to bite off more than you can take care of.. I do tincturing, and I know a shorter list is easier to manage and get through.. And if you’re going fully off-grid, you need someone in the group that can work a still and produce ethyl alcohol, or have a neighbor that does it.. ?

[Michael]

I thought music and sky was only in Cali, definitely would love for y’all to have one closer this way, my place is ripe for the pickings so to speak.

[Sarah Rivkin]

I love all these ideas! I also haven’t the resources and would live to join and contribute to something already existing. Especially an herbal business for food and medicine.

I’m in Seattle. Close to desperate to depart from this city although I love the Pacific Northwest as a wild harvester and hiker.

??

[Hulda]

“would l[o]ve to join and contribute to something already existing”

Me too!

[Kev]

Hi Sarah.. I’m below you in Portland, and feel and relate to what you’re saying.. Same boat here.. I’ve got my eyes and ears peeled for an opportunity to connect with someone in the area that has land and needs help and/or wants to bring in others for the effort..

I was in Goodwill last week and some random guy honed in on me and came up to me and struck up a conversation.. We got to chatting and he revealed that he turned his urban backyard into a food forest (removed the grass), and has ducks & chickens, etc.. So that gave me a hell of a lot of faith that that sort of connection can happen.. Next step: connecting with someone with rural land..

It seems to me that local connections might be a stepping stone that a lot of us will have to take, or the easiest way to make a transition, especially with established landowners..

I’m definitely game for staying in the Pacific Northwest, just for the temperate climate and good grow conditions, and ample opportunity for rainwater catchment.. But I’m wide open otherwise..

I’ll keep you in mind for when/if I meet someone with an opportunity.. And I’m sure I have a lot to learn from you with wild harvesting.. ?

[sara]

I am so encouraged by this post and the general sentiment in these threads about collaboration, community, and creatively supporting each other in making this transition onto more land and into more a sovereign lifestyle. I am also very open and interested in opportunities to do this with others in Northern CA.

Those of us in Nor Cal…it would be awesome to organize a meet-up one of these days to connect in person!

[Penny]

I agree, I am in the Sac valley ♥️ perhaps in march when the rain has let up, we can find some inbetween-ish place for everyone to meet up. I know there are people here in Fresno, I think that is as south as it gets (anyone want to correct me?) otherwise it’s from there all the way up to crescent city. You and I can get together any old time we want. We are close enough I think ?

[sara]

Yes Penny! I would love that!

[Sarah Boyle]

This is a great discussion….as I have been on this dreaming path for some time, explored all sorts of possibilities, participated in early stage ecovillage establishment, joined an anthroposphical community in its early stages of development, met and chatted and talked to many folks about this idea in my area (Tasmania, Australia) and found much resistance from both without and within…. it is a curious social space that we and I have devolved to in relation to our capacity to live within a more shared village living type space.. I chose a path of solo parenting, and since making that decision have really realised the critical importance of living within a village to raise a child / or village children…. and have been searching for this for past 10 years…. Recently a friend asked if I would co-invest in his property ( multi- hectares), so that he would be saved from having to sell it to pay out his ex-wife. Our visions for the future are very similar for our children – yet when it came to it, I could not bring myself to invest in someone elses vision, that he had purchased with his wife, had their children, built their house, had a marriage split and now demands for financial payout as the marriage dissolved….somehow, I could not put the money into his dreaming and feel certain that my daughter would have a secure footing….so what bubbled up for me was a fear for my own daughters security, my own limitations, my own “stuff” around the scarcity mentality that I have developed within the current fiat system….that I only have a finite quantity of fiat, and I must place that somewhere that will ensure my own childs certainty for her kins domain/ family homestead…. So after years and years of seeking co -land sharing and multi-dwelling occupancy of property to create a village for myself and my daughter, I came to my own clarity that I have much more recovery from my devolved state of emotional and community capacity to put my own ingrained wants and needs and vision ahead of the collective village needs…..and that at this point in time, I just need to find property that fits my own requirements for the time being . so we are out of the city, with fully established and reticulated gardens / orchard, has some natural bush on it, some cleared pasture, and within my cash purchase price range and energetically feels more comfortable for me…. and so that is what I am currently in the process of purchasing. Sadly my friend, in spite of a public “go Fund me Program” is now preparing his property for sale…. and I have purchased about half a mile away….in an energetic space that meets my needs….. without any complicated agreements and needing to maintain this arrangement because we may have a falling out at some stage.

So Kev… I really appreciate your recognition about how folks get along within these shared land purchasing and closer living arrangements…. because this is a phase that has to be very carefully worked through. The excitement of idealism is wonderful in the early phases of falling in love with the project and possibilities…..and I have experienced this many times…only to find reality creep in as the initial forming stage gave way to the storming stage of building the community…. The closest I thought I came to finding my village tribe was with the anthrospohical community….starting from scratch, purchased lovely land, amazing dreamings, the constitution for the trust based foundation read like it was made in heaven – and then after about 9 months, I realised that they were really seeking to build a facility for retirement, following all the main stream narrative for the local extremely limiting building codes, in spite of being anthroposophists, they all were happy to wear masks, roll up their sleeves, and jump to in relation to getting their new buildings through local government approvals, and really there was limited space for a full time solo mum, with a young child…. it was an eye opening journey for me….

It takes time and committment for everyone to come together, build relationships, and really come to a shared understanding of how differences will be negotiated, and that through these negotiated differences, the community and village can develop greater strength, trust and resilience, the opportunity for individual spiritual development if folks are up to the radical self responsibility and acknowledgement of what they bring to relationships with themselves and others.

And in this, I have come to see my own opportunities for raising my conscious awareness of who I am and what I bring to relationship, and that I have some way to go within my own personal spiritual journey within, in order to manifest the village living that i have so desired for my self and my daughter… to acknowledge to myself that in spite of my dreaming for village living, I am not yet the community oriented member that manifests this. But I have manifested a property, that I can walk into, will pay cash for, is already foundationally established for food growing, has a wonderful overall positive energy with a positive vortex on, and is within a few minutes walk from a few other awakening folks, and will be a foundation for a multi-generational kins domain for my daughter and following descendents..

Thankyou Kev for starting this thread

[maryschurr]

Sarah, such wise words. In the beginning there is much romance and excitement. It can continue and grow as the relationship(s) go through difficult times and sometimes it cannot. It is good to realize this in the beginning and do the inner work to be sure of what you are truly looking for as well as what you are willing to contribute or how you will compromise. Partnerships can be challenging and yet, so rewarding as well. Much like family can be (although you can’t choose those…or do you??). I’m excited for all of you! You all have such an opportunity ahead of you no matter what.

[Kev]

Sarah.. Such an insightful articulation of your experience and many of the issues at the core of a group of folks coming together in a collaborative community/settlement.. Thank you!.. I personally especially resonate with the realization that it starts with the self, and owning yourself and being clear and honest about what you really truly want.. In my limited (though significant) experience living in community settings, that might be what I would consider the heart of interpersonal conflict – folks not owning themselves and projecting outward onto others, which breeds conflict.. (Or at least part of the equation)..

So many threads here to unravel and follow.. So I’ll jump in and go with it.. (Maybe/hopefully, others will chime in as well)..

Overarching, it’s so true what you say about how modern society has devolved in a way that people don’t know how to truly exist in a community or village, in the sense of the ways of the past, where homes were intergenerational, and everyone knew each other and depended on each other, and shared with each other.. We’ve all said or heard it said in the West, “most people don’t know their neighbors”, and with the instillation of the scarcity mindset, how selfish are most people, just trying to survive??.. (Not being judgy here, it’s just the way our world has been orchestrated).. I can speak for myself, and I see that others will certainly agree: we need to take it back, and I assert that it starts with the self and local community, and building the energy out from there, by example..

Your pulling back from the arrangement with your friend (with the ex-wife) could also be instructive.. If I’m seeing it correctly, it simply boiled down to it “not feeling right”, and a sense of a bit of insecurity about the future, with unknowns, and maybe a bit of not being in control, so you had to pull back.. That’s instructive to me because it demonstrates how it’s best to listen to instinct.. I would hope that that is a force that others tune into when organizing a community-village-homestead, but none of us can or should influence how others approach it, in their own searching.. But certainly something to be aware of.. Maybe you might come across others who “think it’s a great idea”, and you think great, and then in the end they weren’t being honest.. How can you tell??.. In time though, you do start to be able to discern..

Congratulations on finding your piece of land that works for you & your daughter.. If I’m understanding correctly, you can/may possibly bring in others for building a small village in the future, if you ever feel that’s something you want to do and you’re “ready for it”?.. In any case, having the experience of negotiating how everyone is different, and group dynamics, and interpersonal conflicts, is quite valuable to have under the belt.. I would say it’s now a solid position to be in, moving forward..

And I wholly understand what you say there about initial idealism and the dreaming, and the getting along during the honeymoon, only to see later the storms of conflicts and the emergence of “true colors”.. That’s the nature of human relations, I think.. I’ve personally given a lot of thought to this – I mean, a lot.. The conflicts are unavoidable, and always will be.. For me, the best or only thing that I can do is own myself and treat others with respect, and keep working at that, always.. So for a truly voluntaryist reality, it’s important to find others committed to the framework you agree upon as a group (which would need to be hashed out), as well as folks that are committed to owning themselves (whether they do fully or not at any given moment, but yet are committed to checking themselves and owning their actions and projections and how they treat others).. My experience in communities was quite rough years ago – I mean, rough.. (In retrospect, my assessment is that it was a matter of others not owning themselves and projecting outwards, oftentimes in what now seemed like a cry for help – but that’s entirely another gopher-hole one could slip into).. And yes, I was one of those crying out for help..

But as far as the dreaming and idealism goes – I can say and fully embrace that I’m the biggest dreamer and ideas-man I’ve ever met.. Lol.. But I also straddle the line between dreaming and ideals and practicality and function.. I can lay out a fantastic vision and reflect with others in our inspirations, then the next moment I say, “We need water.. What’s the plan and technique for securing water?.. What’s the engineering blueprint?”.. I think that in a sense, the day-to-day “getting shit done” with a sense of purpose will be bonding and grounding.. Perhaps necessity will dissolve some of the inclinations towards conflict – maybe not, though maybe to a good degree.. If you’re thirsty and hungry and focused on securing a stash of food for the winter months, are you gonna fuss about how someone’s holding their shovel??.. (Had to inject a bit of humour there).. ?

Yes, so much to be said about conflict.. I coined the phrase a while back to encompass the dualistic mentality our world is steeped in – “the mentality of conflict”.. Sounds a little harsh, I know, but I can’t help but see the conflicts of the world (and I’m speaking interpersonally here, between people) is a program of duality.. I’ve discussed this quite a bit with a close buddy, and I think also that anyone would agree that conflict and disagreement are inevitable – it’s one of the aspects of human life.. No illusions there.. But I will assert that a lot of it is unnecessary, in some cases just a knee-jerk reaction to this or that which is different from you, so you launch into disagreement and conflict.. Another way I put it is: “There’s 8 billion folks on the planet, all with unique points-of-view and perspectives, so you’re gonna be doing a lot of disagreeing” – (i.e. “what’s the point?”).. I can only speak for myself on this, and this assessment is what I’ve come to up to this point.. So I’ve been working/focusing diligently on just simply honoring the points-of-view of others and respecting it for what it is, as their own thing, and try not to get “triggered”, as they say, by how others are different or challenge me.. (There are of course some things that are so egregious you just have to walk away).. But flushing the dualistic bullshit is challenging, with a need for mindfulness – it’s constant work at this point.. So can I expect others to see through this lens??.. Nope, sure can’t.. Everyone has their own path and their own way.. I’m no saint or guru, just over here working it out for myself..

So see, what can you do??.. Try to find others with a commitment that aligns with your own? – creating a better reality, regardless, and not losing sight of that??.. An assertive commitment to evolution, not stagnation or continued devolution??.. A commitment to embrace the conflict and work it out face-to-face??.. It’s a tough challenge, just thinking about it sometimes..

And I do love your realization through experience that relationships will take a long time to fortify and strengthen.. Actions and energy-of-intent are everything, and that, I think most folks would agree, are foundations of trust.. And yes, “radical self-responsibility”.. Speaking for myself again, “self-responsibility” is truly brilliant and liberating, once you find it, or the path to finding it and becoming it.. I’ll tell ya, victimhood melts away.. Y’all, can I get an “amen”?!.. ?

But briefly, back on the point of being honest about what you really truly want.. Again, speaking for myself, I have come to (quite often now) really question what it is I want in this lifetime, and keep reassessing what I think my purpose is to manifest.. It’s an honest questioning, and I’m wholly open to radical reorientation if necessary.. (Have always been one to redirect, or step off the cliff, if necessary).. But I keep coming back to the essence of it – reclaiming and cleaning up the toxicity of our world through ownership of the self, and rebuilding of community, starting with the homestead and building out locally.. The homestead is the heart – where you own yourself, and control your destiny and that of your family, where you’re responsible, ideally, for everything (food, water, medicine, shelter, the joy you can create).. In my initial spiritual awakening/upheaval early in life, in my 20’s, living in San Francisco, I plugged into the realization that the old ways of the homestead is the way to go for our liberation.. So far, I’m sticking to that notion, even doubling-down a wee bit.. See, ideas-man.. Now, who’s got the engineering blueprints??..

?

[Eliza]

Kev -what a glorious comment. I waited to post in here despite having a homestead at my disposal that desperately needs residents and energy and vision. Alas, I seem to be the sole Masshole New Englander in the AV universe thus far. Currently, I am just trying to deal with New Hampshire problemz (yes, I mean literally a garage of “we’ll need it one day” and dusty books about the kennedys. Perhaps I should start a moral support decluttering group because honestly these very lonely unglamorous first steps are hard and sad (family home, needs love) – but I know that if I build it they will come.

As for being worried about who will come? I went on NOLS for three months and experienced lord of the flies. I definitely know what you mean about commune life or even community life being daunting. – However – the hell of the last few years seems to have made something clear: I’d been a hermit for many years and had a very small network in order to shield myself from certain things. Once I had hit peak isolation – out of the blue – a distant relative came on scene and upturned my life. Then I’d lived in a moldy house and became very sick and it was a whole ordeal and tried to clean everything and avoid mold and moved and guess what happened: my storage unit got all moldy from a leak in the roof. What are the chances?

I’m so on board with realizing that I create my own reality and have to take responsibility. Maybe when it comes to group dynamics: there is a challenge that we are going to have to face in this life and we can try to hide from it but eventually that energetic experience with a person or environment will find us – we can run but we can we hide? What do we loose if we hide and don’t learn? Maybe the only way is through – if a group dynamic / community to go to the land passes the discernment step – we have to just take the plunge, take the medicine and go through the growing pains so we can level up to finally get unstuck and get to the thrill and rewards of a new challenge.

Anyways, Just a thought. I would attend a seminar hosted by Alfa Vedic about handling group dynamics especially in a voluntaryist / commune sort of sense! That would be really great. Or even just a “fireside chat” with barre where he talks about a few memories / examples while creating the homestead business.

[Kev]

Eliza!.. Speaking of glorious comments:

“Maybe the only way is through – if a group dynamic / community to go to the land passes the discernment step – we have to just take the plunge, take the medicine and go through the growing pains so we can level up to finally get unstuck and get to the thrill and rewards of a new challenge”

Yes indeed, so well put.. Been thinking about this very thing.. A group can hash out their agreements, get on page with each other on homestead life, find common ground, even in relatively fine detail.. But then you get down into how you deal with the nitty gritty of the interpersonal.. You can’t possibly know everything about everybody, if not very much to begin with.. So what you say there is such a good summation and reflection of what I’ve been thinking – what you need is commitment to the process and commitment to creating something better, and not giving up on it.. As you say, “level up” and embrace the growing pains.. I’m all about it.. ?

So inspiring to see this.. Glorious comment..

(Also love the idea of workshopping this in some way, or some informal reflections on experiences, etc.)..

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[Gerald]

This thread! Too many things to even remotely comment on, but so much of this really resonates. This has been where my head is at for the past year or two. I’m a man of limited financial resources, and even if I could afford a nice plot in the country, boy it sure gets overwhelming quickly when you think about how much goes into to building and maintaining a homestead. But as a team, the sky could very well be the limit. But as pointed out, group dynamics are a tricky thing, and idealistic outlooks can quickly give way to all manner of real world hiccups.

I’ve been working at manifesting such a scenario and constantly trying to engage with new folks to see what potentials might be behind those doors. Heck, it’s a good part of why I joined AV. The search for community and future tribe. Maybe this thread is all part of that manifestation process! ?

[Kev]

I hear ya as well, Gerald.. I’m of limited resources myself, and even if I could secure my own land purchase, as you say, I’d still grow it out as a group homestead.. I could go it alone, to a degree, but so much more can be achieved in synergy and collaboration..

And it’s almost entirely why I joined this site in fact.. With the discussions on AV about building out locally, and the building of a vision that is so aligned with my own, it seemed like this is the best spot to find the like-minded, those on the same page, a tribe, etc.. ?

[Hulda]

I hear you Gerald. I’m in a similar “place”. I’m hoping dreaming that those of us without resources and/or family/a community to homestead with will find an opportunity when Music&Sky buys its property.

Two years ago I was somewhat desperately looking for folks to buy land with. I realized, after that didn’t come together, that having viable relations is more important than having people to share costs. Of course, ultimately we need both, I feel, but building community for me has become central.

That’s why, when I saw that moving to the land wasn’t gonna happen for me in the foreseeable, I started moving towards building a small community at my triplex house, including moving away from landlord-tenant relationships. Now I have a steward who helps with gardening and some handytasks as 25% of his “consideration for use of living space”. My original tenant, in his mid-80’s, is on the verge of moving out and a couple of friends who would love to enter my stewardship community are poised to see what we can make happen. I’m thinking that should an opportunity “come around” to move to the land, into a community or creating one, one or more of them may wish to join us. Stay tooned 🙂

[Kev]

Hi Hulda.. That’s fantastic that you’re building relations in this way locally, in your own personal sphere.. That’s where it begins in my view, in personal relationships.. It’s instructive what you’re doing.. At the very least, you could say it’s good practice, in leading up to a total shift to the land and group dynamics..

Personally, I’m working on putting together something locally to start relating to others in a genuine and authentic way.. A friend and I are negotiating putting together a landscape-garden design service, not as a business, but as a voluntary, free-of-charge service, for sake of being of service to others and building relations.. We will take donations, of course, but that’s not the point.. And part of it is so that we can experiment and build our skills more, and move into areas we haven’t cultivated yet — such as for me, self-regenerating perennial food-producing gardens — (i.e. “food forests”).. I got a lot under my belt, but a vastness still to learn and cultivate.. We’re gonna start by setting up a table, come springtime, on the sidewalk outside the local farmer’s market, and set out a load of potted plants with a sign that says “Free plants”, and another that says “Free garden design service”.. That should attract some good folks.. ?

[Hulda]

Thanks for the encouragement, Kev.

I’m in awe of your garden design service project, and the spirit thereof. I’ve been wanting to create a food forest since learning of ’em 4-5 years ago. And recently I’ve envisioned something similar to your service. Once my new stewards move in (crossing my fingers!) I hope to start creating my/our own food forest. Then on to providing a community service!

Looking forward to your updates as your project evolves.

Huggs, Hulda

[Kev]

Yes, I will give you updates.. And it reminds me of how I was conceiving of this originally — which would be building out a network of volunteers that work on various projects around the area.. And that’s my “big vision” brain going off, as it does.. But also, important thing — no one in charge, and voluntary only, at least for my part.. So the point would be to plant the seed of the idea at least, and see how others run with it.. Or we could be a bigger group than just us 2, with a central focus and collaboration.. Who knows how such things would evolve??.. Many possibilities.. But for now, I’ll be stoked to get one project for this coming summer..

I’ve also had the idea of us being installers for Food Forest Abundance and their installations.. I forget what they call it, but they have a network of locals all over (from nurseries and landscapers) that do the work locally.. Man, would love to get in on those projects, even if it’s just digging soil and popping plants in the ground.. ?

[Gerald]

Great solution, Hulda! When the dream option (land) isn’t on the table, then we have to make the most out of what we have. Grow where you’re planted! This is what I keep trying to remind myself of. Build a local network, and ideally those new connections and relationships will lead to something greater, be that a fresh build on land down the road, or at the very least it will bring strength and resiliency in what we have currently.

[Eliza]

Hulda – wow! I’m all ears in any way you’d like to teach about the format/trials/tribulations/experiments/funny moments with your stewardship process. That is very appropos for me.

Kev – what an interesting idea! I ran it by Jed to see if he had any insight – because he mentioned that the one thing you’d be kissing access to potentially was like machine mediated gardening tools – not that you need those he then realized – and I said well, could Kev sort of build a relationship with existing companies as well as clients/homeowners? He made a joke – sure I’d “hire him every day” lol we got a good chuckle out of that. Honestly though – apprenticeships and paying forward service into a community really is pure gold.

[Kev]

Fantastic.. And you’re right, I wouldn’t be taking on jobs that required machinery, except in one case — grass removal, which would require a sod cutter if it was a lot of grass, in which case we could contract out to a landscaper who can do the job, and quickly.. Otherwise, with a small garden, grass removal with a shovel is good enough — slow, but I can make it work.. And in fact, grass removal is a big part of what I would be going for in this service, and will probably be promoting it pretty hard..

Was telling my collaborator my long-time joke about potentially putting together a service, and what one of my slogans or mantras would be: “If you’re looking for someone to mow your grass or trim your hedges, you got the wrong guy”.. Lol.. I’ll remove it, but ain’t mowing.. ?

But also, you do bring something up that’s always a possibility — expanding the vision out and collaborating with existing officially-licensed landscape services who like the vision and would be up for some volunteer work and collaboration.. In that case, their infrastructure (existing arsenal of tools and know-how in finding clients) would be valuable.. Possibilities.. ?

[Gerald]

Kev you are so on the right track! I love your generous idealism! Kind of sounds like agorism, which really appeals to me. Helping each other thrive voluntarily because it ultimately just feels like how we should be doing things. That said, lol, we live in our current paradigm.

I’ve been doing landscaping/gardening as a one man band for 3 years now and have managed to do so without heavy machinery. Does it exclude me from certain jobs? Sure. But again, I’m one man, so stacking multiple, more manageable jobs with less overhead/input costs has been the way to go. I honestly try to keep a balance. I use some power tools on occasion, a leaf blower is def faster than a rake, but in general I’m a hand tools guy. I appreciate the more peaceful aspect of it. I mean, how annoying is it when you’re doing whatever, then the mowing service shows up and makes the whole neighborhood obnoxiously loud for the next hour? (lol personal gripe) So when you hit that so removal, just lasagna garden over it!

If you, or anyone, is interested, there is a whole network that is building around FoodScaping. There is a company here in StL called Custom Foodscaping, and the owner, Matt, has started a second company called simply, The Foodscaper. He’s created a site for people to network with other foodscapers, a foodscape-centric podcast, and a yearly FoodScaper conference which happens to be this Wednesday and Thursday. I’m signed up for it. Includes a bunch of speaker presentations, Q&A panels and such. Could be a great resource for all of my fellow Food Forest dreamers!

https://www.thefoodscaper.com/conference

• This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by  Gerald.

thefoodscaper.com

The Foodscaper Conference | 2024 | All virtual

Calling all edible landscapers and gardeners! Build your own foodscaping business. Join us at The Foodscaper Conference on January 24 and 25 - all live and virutal!

[Kev]

Gerald.. Thanks for the affirmations, brother.. Still surprising me everyday how we’re all getting on the same page.. I’ve always felt that in my core, to live in a way to help and lift each other up.. But, as you say, the current paradigm — competition and stepping over each other, survival of the fittest, etc.. Blah.. ?

And you’re right about how you do things — just do what you can, however you can do it, and the way you want to do it.. It’s easy to assume to be a landscaper, you have to have the full arsenal of all the equipment, etc.etc.. But you don’t.. Do it however suits you.. I’ll take a shovel and a milk crate of plant starts on the damn bus if I have to to get where I’m going.. (I’ve done it before, when I first moved here, had a few dollars in my pocket, and started a non-toxic housecleaning service — did everything by bus).. Lol.. Good times..

But also what you say there about using the lasagna layering technique for dealing with sod “removal” — that’s such a good example of how valuable collaboration is.. Yeah, I knew that approach, but wasn’t currently thinking it, and there you were with the reminder.. See, collaboration..

Oh, and I looked at the Foodscaping conference.. That sounds like it’s gonna be good for you in what you do.. I personally wouldn’t be able to afford it at this time, but I also found Matt’s YT channel, and will be looking into that today.. For anyone, here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/@TheFoodscaper/videos

[Hulda]

Uh, thanks for the confidence in me that I would be able to teach what I’m doing. But why not?

[Author]

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